| Archive for teamblackthistle.myfastforum.org Team Blackthistle airsoft froum |
| Colibub |
FPS debateOn the subject of fps my opinion is that we stick with the UKs accepted limit of 1j or 330fps. It was ok when we all started Airsofting because all of the main manufacturers were producing guns with outputs of around 280fps and the main make of gun at that time for us was Marui because of reliability problems with the likes of ICS, Classic Army and G&G. Now these problems with nearly all of the brands seem to be ironed out and the attraction of full metal more realistic guns from the above makers and I might add a much better variety of models of guns are now available to us across the range of manufacturers.So the problems we now might face. Nearly all of the manufacturers (with the exception of Marui) are producing and advertising their Airsoft guns with an output of 1j or over 300fps because it seems to be an internationally acceptable output (with the exception of the US where much a higher powered gun is allowed). Does this mean we would have to stop buying ICS, Classic Army or G&G because most of the retailers in the UK (like Zero One and Airsoft Scotland ) are proud to advertise on their sites that certain makes now come out of the box firing 1j and if we do buy one of these 330fps guns hoping that its under 300fps and its not, we now have a gun that cannot be use at our site. So now more expense getting the retailer to downgrade the AEG or voiding your warranty by opening up your AEG yourself. I now might have the dilemma that 3 of my AEGs are over 300fps and I will not be able to use them at our site. Its not only myself that would have this problem dogsbody wouldn't be able to use any of his AEGs as they are over 300fps, Sam and Andrews M4s are over 300fps so that would count them out Mark T, Phil and The Cat have ICS M4s that possibly could be over the 300 mark. We all accept that Airsoft is an extreme sport and there is a possibility of injury at some time but there not life threatening just annoying.Phil's busted nose and this was with a pistol, my tooth with a standard Marui G36, The Cats arm standard gun again. My point is that it will happen no matter what we use but with a little common sense and instruction for newer players we can all enjoy our sport without having to limit our choices of weapon, I bought a CA Scar because I wanted a Scar not because of its power output and I hope that the young players who got their mums and dads to spend their hard earned cash on Airsoft kit can continue to use it. |
| davy |
I think we should stay with up to 330fps, its a personal choice if you want to wear more protection so you dont get hurt, facemasks, extra padding, and the like. We should lay down some ground rules, the clubs rules of engagement if you like and have everyone sign a disclaimer. There are a few young players with us whose parents might not be to happy with us sending them home bloodied and bruised because they might lack a bit of experience. |
| mutter |
ok coli, points well made, but........i disagree!
all you have said in the above post is correct. yes, 330 is indeed the uk accepted limit. no, we would not want to limit the choice of guns available to our players. yes, we do accept possible injury in the name off the game. my argument on keeping a lower power limit (as has always been the case) is to keep the game safe, fun and friendly. safety - because the majority of us do not wear full face protection! and also there are a few young players who don't seem to have high pain thresholds (yes, its true!) fun - if higher power outputs means more injuries then the fun element goes out the window. i know there is always a risk of injury but lets be honest, higher power guns bring higher risk of injury! i certainly don't enjoy getting hurt, do you??? friendly - this is probably the most important point of all which i have stated from day one. our games are always (well almost always!) friendly and there is very very little bad feelings between players in games. if you start hurting people then you are also going to p**s people off. you will also start the "hey my guns 280 but his guns 330" argument which i have long tried to avoid. the last day we played i got shot in the face area four times. once by cat, once by mickey and twice by you. but it was your "UKs accepted limit of 1j or 330fps" gun that twice drew blood (and that was at what i would deem a resonable range too!). you mentioned phil's nose, marks arm and your tooth but these were all at point blank range!! these sort of injuries are obviously capable of happening at very close distances. if you remeber Lanrak, Maurice had his nose broken by blind fire from a gun shooting 330! these sort of injuries we absolutely want to avoid. all this aside, i am NOT posting these comments because i want to ban all guns over 300. what i want is some sort of range regulation or some sort of fire limit to give the wee guys at 280 a sporting chance. lets face it coli m8, there are a few team guns shooting at 330 but they are generaly owned by you!! 
davy - if i want to play a sport that leaves me covered in bruises and cuts, so much so i have to start signing injury disclaimers and wearing a full face mask and extra padding...............i'll play PAINTBALL!!!!!!!!!!!!
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| tone |
am gan tae agree wie gary on this,anyone can do as they please when it comes to buying their preffered weapon whether it shoots at 280 or 330 but if it does shoot at the higher end new engagement rules must be introduced to reduce the likelyhood off serious injury,training might also be useful in doing so,the last thing we want is to lose the 'fun factor' from our days out and to start putting people off especially the younger players. |
| tone |
an davy am NO gan back tae paintball!!!!! |
| smiffy94 |
Well Am Not Really Affected By The Fps Gun Wise As All Mine Are Under
300Fps, Safety Is Important But A Think We All Share Common Sense. From My Own Point Of View I Dont Mind If The Site Limit Is At 330Fps Or 300Fps I Just Want To Play And When We Have Away Days There Are More Powerful Guns At These Sites But We Are Still Playing For Fun(arnt we) Its Not Up To Me To Make The Rules Only To Follow Them But There Have Been Incidents Before On Our Site With High Fps Guns And Nothing Was Said Or Done Then, Wot Has Changed This Time?  
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| Colibub |
I do like a good debate
I'm all for safety and if you want lets implement some range or close contact rules to help reduce the chance of injury it could start ti get complicated though. 
How many times have you all heard me say "we need to crono that new gun" but on the day of play it seems to get brushed aside or forgotten about and I must admit I'm as bad at forgetting as the next toy soldier. We need to address this and how many of the newer players know that there was/is a 300fps limit have any of us bothered to let them know. So some of these players will go and buy a gun not even thinking about the output. I asked Russell when he rejoined us what's your new gun firing at he replied "a havny a clue m8" not because he ignored rules but he expected just to buy a gun and that's him ready to play. My point is if we decide to go for a limit of 300fps what do we expect people to do with the guns they have over the 300 mark, as I said before there are a few players with 300+ guns not just me Gary m8 and I only have one firing at 330 the Scar the M4s 310 and the CA33s 302fps the rest are all underpowered Marui's .
Correct me if I'm wrong but is this not about the first time anybodys been that pissed off with me. 
I've also done a bit of study on the benefits of 330 over 280 and the maths say it does hit harder at close range but most people say its hard to tell the difference and out at long range a well setup 280 can hold its fps better than a poorly sealed 330. There again all of my own guns are well setup but not for power but for accuracy, consistency and rate of fire, believe what you like but I don't give a toss about going for maximum power. And who mentiond Paintball PAH!! 
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| mutter |
guys,
i get the impression that we've been fine playing at "whatever" fps but since i've been on the recieving end suddenly everything has changed? NOT TRUE!!! "But There Have Been Incidents Before On Our Site With High Fps Guns And Nothing Was Said Or Done Then" WHEN??? correct me if i'm wrong but have i not maintained from day one that we should keep the power limits down? not one of my guns fires over 300fps! we had this debate a while ago and we ALL agreed, or has everyone conveniently forgoten? seems to me the rule has been working just fine up until a week ago and now the rule has been ammended to suit. the other important point is that there are one or two players that dont have the same control or experience in point blank situations to stop and think about "hang on, i'm a bit close". i remember a boot hill game where i could have practicaly touched the players barrel and he fired full auto right into my face, and didn't stop firing till i was practicaly screaming at him! (and that was at 280!). there is also one or two players that would not be happy with the fact that "your guns 330 but mines is 280", then they buy a 330 gun and so on.............. as we are indeed a club and we have always put diplomacy first i WILL go with the majority. but when people start complaining about getting hit and people stop attending games then don't say you weren't warned. i've seen this all before.............. 
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| mutter |
oh! and the reason we don't regulary chrono guns is because someone took my chrono! ahem!
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| Colibub |
Ye've had it back for aboot a year noo ya bugger and it was used te detune ma guns.
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| Colibub |
Oot o interest what's ye CA M15 firing at. Am no trying tee be smart am jist interested because its quite a new purchase and these 1j guns that are firing under 300fps we could sue their asses because the guns are not doing what they were bought for. 
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| mutter |
my m15 was bought from firesupport and their spec states 280-313fps so i presume its somewhere in between?
http://www.fire-support.co.uk/sto...mersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=879 i was not aware of any "pre-upgrades" when i bought it? |
| dogsbody |
Well m8s am by no why a regular or as regular as i would like  I was under the impresion that 330 was or limit.So i did improve my g3 to improve the range not to hurt any one and i hope i have enough sense to make sure i wouldn`t shoot any one to close or on to delicate a area,i now this sound easyer than it is for (the fog of war) can over come the strongest of us.
i am all for chronoing all or guns so we all now where we stand and what we really have for to be honest do we all really now? this depate does need resolved for all our good so we can get on with our chosen sport and have the fun we all look forward to. finally for me a think of you all as m8s and i don`t want to inflickt pian or injury on any of you i just want a good day or night out, good creepppy creepy movement and a good fire fight :wink ideas to sort our problems 1 training to make us all aware what is a safe shot. 2 may be a single shot engagement range so hope to see you all soon ie tue night 
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| davy |
dont get me wrong guys, all a meant was if you are scared at gettin hurt, pad up, safety is paramount, and so is fun. none of my guns are over 300fps, exept maybe my pistol on a good hot day, an a dont mind playin against people with higher fps guns in the type of open ground that we play, but in close combat, say at lanark, yeah i know i didnt make it, but i dont think i would fancy starin down the barrel of one there caus you know its going to really hurt. Even in our games when it gets cbq there are some guns that i dont fancy coming across at the other side of a tree and if i do, i hope they hit a fleshy part, like when a got pinned by russel, i took on tone instead caus russels gun sounded like it was tryin to saw through the tree |
| Colibub |
G a think with the trend being 330fps for the most of the UKs sites the manufacturers are setting a lot of their products 330fps or 1j now as a standard to make it more attractive for people to buy their guns as they wont need to upgrade them. So this unfortunately doesn't help us when going for another new shiny toy.
I have noticed that ICSs CQB range of weapons are being sold at around 260-280fps because of the nature of CQB (a think I read this on Arnies). James maybe has a point for extreme close quarter combat as we sometimes have at boot hill, single shot when you know you could come face to face with someone and thats where most of the face shots are occuring. Its all head and shoulders at times. (Great Shampoo though) 
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| mutter |
ok chaps,
fair comments from everybody, especially the dogsboby, well put! i think now we are finally past the "who's right and who's wrong" posts and we are now getting some positive input. colin - i accept that gun velocities have increased and i have NOT said i would want to stop anyone buying a gun because it shoots over 300fps, people can, and will, buy what they want. if we are going to up the limit then what we need are better rules of engagment to lessen the risks of injury. i have always felt that the 280-300 was ample for the games we play because they are often close to medium range. both shotts and lanark had rules on fully auto at certain ranges, in fact, shotts had pretty much banned full auto completely!!! dogsbody made two very good points: "1 training to make us all aware what is a safe shot." "2 maybe a single shot engagement range" maybe we should organise a night (or day) to focus on saftey and gun play? |
| smiffy94 |
As Av Already Said None Ov My Guns Are Over 300Fps So The Out Come Ov The Debate Isnt Going To Make Much Diffrence 2 Me Gun Wise Only When Am On The Recieveing End Lol
But Rather Than Everyone Getting Handbags Out And Having Sneaky Little Digs At Each Other Shouldn't We Just Make A Decision 300 or 330Fps Or Is That As Simple As Me?
Sorry Am Not Much 4 Debates Unless Its A Mass One
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